EMILY FENG, HOST:
If you were stuck on a remote island, do you think you would make it? Not so sure? Well, what if there were a million dollars on the line?
(SOUNDBITE OF RUSS LANDAU SONG, "ANCIENT VOICES")
FENG: For decades now, the show "Survivor" has drawn hundreds of contestants to remote locations around the world where they compete to outwit, outplay and outlast each other to become the sole survivor. The show is about to conclude its 50th season. And while "Survivor" has amassed a remarkably dedicated following over the course of its 25 years on air, Rob Cesternino is probably the world's biggest "Survivor" fan. His credentials include competing on two separate seasons, hosting a successful podcast about the show and authoring a new book titled "The Tribe And I Have Spoken." Rob Cesternino, welcome.
ROB CESTERNINO: Emily, thank you so much.
FENG: I'm sorry if this is a sore point, and it's a bit of a spoiler alert, but you have not won either of the seasons...
CESTERNINO: That's OK.
FENG: ...You participated in. But you've turned those lemons into lemonade. I mean, you've built an entire career around this show with your podcast and now your book. What is it about this show that you think sustains this community and keeps people so interested even after the end credits roll?
CESTERNINO: So the format is so beautiful and compelling that I think there's something innate in all of us in, for our ancestors, being sent out of the tribe meant death. And so it's a concept that's just so easy for people to wrap their heads around. And I think we all have wondered, how would I do if I was on some kind of desert island? Would I be able to make it? But then on top of that are our modern day social politics. And so there's so many things that make it fascinating where you could imagine yourselves as the players on "Survivor."
FENG: You write about, in the book, how competing on "Survivor" can tap into your deepest, most primitive psyche - you know, like making alliances, taking down alpha members of your tribe.
CESTERNINO: Yeah.
FENG: What have you learned about yourself from competing on "Survivor"?
CESTERNINO: So "Survivor" is so unique where, in our lives, we have all of these different things that we can rely on from stations and titles and all sorts of things that we come into every situation with. Where, on "Survivor," you're really stripped down to just yourself, and I think that you really learn what are the things that you have at your disposal to be able to maneuver through these situations. And what I found was that, I think that I have a very keen sense of being able to spot patterns in things that are happening and being able to deduce where people stand in social hierarchies, and I was able to use that to some good effect on "Survivor."
FENG: You can read a room, basically.
CESTERNINO: I can read a room. Yeah. I would say, I wish I was better at reading the people, but I feel like that in these situations, I'm not bad at deducing, you know, who's in charge.
FENG: So when "Survivor" was a younger show, people may have come in totally cold to compete. But now I understand the majority of people who get cast are themselves already superfans of "Survivor," and so they come in pretty well studied. Can you hack it on "Survivor" these days if you haven't studied the lore and previous strategies?
CESTERNINO: It's so interesting that the evolution of the "Survivor" contestant has really become the evolution of the superfan of "Survivor." And in the early days of the show, there were many people who were thrust into "Survivor" having really no background whatsoever. But now with the influx of streaming, that - it would be wild for any new player on "Survivor" to not come in without having seen 25, 30 seasons of the show. "Survivor" really tries to bring in only people who are the most ardent superfans to play on "Survivor."
FENG: Fifty seasons is a lot of seasons. There have been changes to the show. Not everyone likes the changes.
CESTERNINO: Sure.
FENG: What do you think about the way the show's evolved?
CESTERNINO: In the old days of "Survivor," it was more of just a war of attrition. The game was longer. The conflicts were more intense among the players. "Survivor" in the new era, they have sped the game up. Everything is fast to try to make sure that we are catering to maybe some of the lower-attention-span audiences where things are moving, people are losing votes, and there's chaos and unpredictability. But it does make it a harder game to play because there's so much variance.
FENG: What do you want the feature of the show to look like, then?
CESTERNINO: I would love for the future of "Survivor" to go a little bit back to where the show was more in the middle period of the show, where we have bigger tribes and more outcomes of letting the players have more room to play and not have as many producer twists changing things up from episode to episode.
FENG: That was Rob Cesternino, host of "Rob Has A Podcast." His new book, "The Tribe And I Have Spoken," is out now. Thank you.
CESTERNINO: Thank you, Emily.
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