AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Today, we have the pleasure of speaking with one of the most influential players in the history of women's basketball. On the court, she was a WNBA champion and most valuable player and an 11-time All-Star, mostly for the Los Angeles Sparks. Off the court, she served as president of the players' union for a decade, and with women's basketball now enjoying a wave of new attention, earlier this year, she helped the players secure the single largest salary increase from one collective bargaining agreement to the next in all professional sports ever. And then, she decided to hang up her high-tops. Nneka Ogwumike joins me now here at NPR West as a new retiree from the WNBA. Nneka, it is so great to have you here with me.
NNEKA OGWUMIKE: It's such a pleasure. Thank you.
CHANG: So how has retirement been so far?
OGWUMIKE: You know, interestingly, busier than when I was playing (laughter).
CHANG: Really? Is that right?
OGWUMIKE: Yeah.
CHANG: Are you kidding me?
OGWUMIKE: Yes (laughter).
CHANG: Busier, like, you're traveling more or you're...
OGWUMIKE: Traveling.
CHANG: ...Just working more hours per day?
OGWUMIKE: I'm traveling. I think what it is, is I'm actually able to say yes to the things that I wouldn't typically be able to...
CHANG: Oh, yeah.
OGWUMIKE: ...Behind the boundary of games and practices and preparation. So I'm actually grateful that things are a bit busy.
CHANG: Wow. Well, can I ask you just about your decision to retire? Because it took a lot of people by surprise. I mean, you were still averaging over 17 points a game. You were still named an All-Star, and you had just helped negotiate this huge new salary increase for all the WNBA players. Why did you feel this was the time to leave?
OGWUMIKE: You know, I entered this free agency with the idea that I would sign a two-year, and certain things happened to where I only signed a one-year. And I was like, OK, you know what? Let's just get through this year, and then we'll figure out what next year looks like. But when I got to training camp, I just realized - you know, I felt as though I had poured as much as I could in in the offseason, through negotiation. And whatever energy I had left, I wanted to leave it on the court and in a way that I could continue to fulfill my standard of performance. And so I decided, hey, if I want to just leave it all on the court, I can do it for one year and, you know, be remembered as I am today...
CHANG: Yeah.
OGWUMIKE: ...And be proud of what I've done.
CHANG: Well, the WNBA has grown in so many ways since you first entered - what? - back in 2012, right? How would you describe to, say, a rookie entering the league this year, how much the WNBA has changed since you entered a decade and a half ago?
OGWUMIKE: Oh, it's changed tremendously. Obviously, we were able to negotiate salaries to be much higher in a very meaningful way. So rookies are coming in earning a living that is certainly more indicative of the value we've been fighting for - not at all the endgame, but certainly closer to what we believe we deserve - know that we deserve. And, you know, the experience is also something that has changed, you know, whether it's travel, you know, staff, the resources available, investment, fandom, accessibility...
CHANG: Yeah.
OGWUMIKE: ...Visibility. There's so many games on TV. And, you know, with that, I think it's important for them to realize that they're a part of that change. Rookies are coming in with businesses that are oftentimes bigger than the markets that they're entering.
CHANG: Well, I want to talk a little bit about your union role. Because, you know, back in 2016, you became president of the Women's National Basketball Player's Association. It was the same year that you won the championship, when you were named the MVP. So much was going on for you on the court. What made you want to take this extra role, as well?
OGWUMIKE: I have to be honest.
CHANG: Yeah.
OGWUMIKE: I did not want to take the role (laughter).
CHANG: Really?
OGWUMIKE: Yeah. I did not want to take the role.
CHANG: Who got you to say yes then (laughter)?
OGWUMIKE: The president before me was Tamika Catchings...
CHANG: OK.
OGWUMIKE: ...And I had served on the executive committee with her. And she said, hey, I'm retiring, and I think that you would be a great candidate to run for president. I told her no several times...
CHANG: (Laughter).
OGWUMIKE: ...Until I couldn't.
CHANG: Because you just felt you didn't have the energy? What was the no about?
OGWUMIKE: I don't think that I saw myself as someone who could lead in that way, but I feel that sometimes it needs to be seen in you by someone else to step into the space.
CHANG: What did you learn about yourself as a leader after your time as union head?
OGWUMIKE: Yeah. Definitely I learned that in order to truly try and make change as a leader, you have to fight for those who wouldn't fight for you.
CHANG: Yeah.
OGWUMIKE: I think, in the greater context, if you're elected, you have to fight hardest for those who did not elect you. And I think that that's the best way that you can move forward. You can learn. You can make space for those who have differences.
CHANG: I mean, that takes a generosity of spirit...
OGWUMIKE: It does.
CHANG: ...On your part anyway.
OGWUMIKE: And it's not easy...
CHANG: Yeah.
OGWUMIKE: ...But I think that you can go deeper and further that way.
CHANG: Well, because of all your success as a union leader, your name has been floated as someone who might one day work in team management or league management, maybe even as commissioner. What is next for you? Do you care to share that on NPR?
OGWUMIKE: Oh, absolutely.
CHANG: Yeah?
OGWUMIKE: Rest. Rest. Rest.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: I do want that for you. Yes.
OGWUMIKE: Thank you.
CHANG: And then what (laughter)?
OGWUMIKE: Yeah. You know, I don't know if I can name it, but I definitely keep doors open. I am still playing internationally, so I look forward to that. But taking a break and having my summers available to hopefully see what those doors yield. And in the spirit of conversation around commissioner, I personally don't think that I am qualified enough...
CHANG: Why not?
OGWUMIKE: ...On the business side. You know, I think I've experienced a lot, and I know that you can learn on the job, but I would like to challenge myself a bit more. Maybe by the time I feel like I've challenged myself enough, there may be someone else who will see it in me and push me in that direction.
CHANG: Again, waiting for someone to see it in you (laughter) - Nneka (laughter).
OGWUMIKE: I love community.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: OK. Well, most important questions. Let's talk a little bit about the WNBA finals, which get underway this weekend. We've got the Golden State Valkyries versus the Atlanta Dream. What do you make of that matchup?
OGWUMIKE: I think it's a dream matchup. Seeing the Valks (ph) in their second year being in the finals, I already know that they are certainly going to be a template for existing teams and future franchises. And then Atlanta, you know, being able to turn things around in a matter of years. And, of course, seeing the powerhouse that is in Angel Reese not just impacting the game but impacting such a huge community, not just in Atlanta but for the WNBA. I think it's just going to be something that people are going to talk about for a really long time, especially in this inflection in women's basketball.
CHANG: Who wins the title?
OGWUMIKE: I guess we'll find out.
CHANG: Good answer.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: Spoken like a future commissioner.
OGWUMIKE: (Laughter).
CHANG: Nneka Ogwumike, WNBA star, head of the players' union, thank you so much for visiting us at NPR West today.
OGWUMIKE: Such a pleasure. Thank you.
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