MICHEL MARTIN, BYLINE: Adults know B.J. Novak from his TV and film roles like Ryan on "The Office." But to kids, he's probably famous for a different reason - as the author of the children's book "The Book With No Pictures."
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
BJ NOVAK: Here is how books work. Everything the words say the person reading the book has to say.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: No matter what.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: That's the deal. That's the rule. So that means...
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: That's the rule?
NOVAK: ...Even if the words say blork (ph).
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: The book has sold millions of copies and has been translated into 26 languages. And now he's got something for even littler fans, with a new board book out today called "The Little Book With No Pictures." And B.J. Novak is here to tell us more about it. Good morning. Thanks so much for joining us.
NOVAK: Oh, good morning. Thank you for having me on.
MARTIN: So it's been a minute since the first book, and I never got a chance to talk to you about that. So if you don't mind...
NOVAK: Yeah.
MARTIN: What gave you the idea?
NOVAK: Well, my friends were having kids, and my way to connect in their households was to read their kids books. So the kids would toddle up to me and just hand me a book. And I'd think, you know, this is funny. They don't know what's in the book. They just trust that I'm going to say it. And what would be their dream come true? What could be in this book that would make them laugh, that would make me make a fool of myself in some funny way? And so I printed and glue-sticked and paper-clipped a book together that ended up being "The Book With No Pictures" so I could read it to them. And when it worked, I thought, let's take this show on the road. Let's send it to a publisher.
MARTIN: Did you think that it would be as popular as it was...
NOVAK: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...As it is?
NOVAK: Yeah. I think everything I do is going to be the biggest thing in the world.
MARTIN: (Laughter).
NOVAK: I'm usually wrong. So I'm very, very lucky.
MARTIN: It's funny 'cause I was reading the Times review. For some reason, that cracked me up. It said, B.J. Novak's "The Book With No Pictures" is the most conceptually radical of these books, doing away altogether with the medium's defining element. And I just thought it was so funny to use such formal language about a book...
NOVAK: That's...
MARTIN: ...That's...
NOVAK: ...Amazing.
MARTIN: ...With, like, words like sploof (ph).
NOVAK: Yes. The New York Times would call it conceptually radical. I mean, what a dream come true for an author. You'd never think it'd be from this, though. It is radical. I think to a kid, that's just rebellion. That's just fun. They're not thinking, oh, the formalism is blowing my mind.
MARTIN: (Laughter).
NOVAK: To them, it's just, oh, my mom, my dad is saying these words that are ridiculous, and I'm the one controlling it. It's very fun for them.
MARTIN: Do you think it's fun for kids to see adults be silly, or do you think it's really more giving adults permission to be silly?
NOVAK: Ooh. I think there's a lot of both. I think probably what's fun about it is that there's something very reassuring that the book is filled with rules, and the parent is technically following the rules, but the rules are to be very silly. And the rules are sort of a kid's dream book of rules. So I think it's that interplay between following a rule and breaking a rule that is fun for kids and parents.
MARTIN: The first book was such a big hit, and people obviously loved it. People had to have been asking for a follow-up. I know there was the follow-up that...
NOVAK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MARTIN: ...You know, kids could draw themselves.
NOVAK: Right, right, right.
MARTIN: But that's...
NOVAK: Yeah.
MARTIN: The first one came out in 2014. I just - forgive me. What took you so long? Every - I'm sure people had been asking you for a follow-up.
NOVAK: Yeah. Absolutely. And I actually wrote a couple versions that I thought were good. But whenever I finished them, kids would say, now read the first book again. And I thought, well, I don't want to interrupt the magic of that first book being a read-it-again-forever type of book.
"The Little Book With No Pictures" was the perfect thing to do because I do see that little kids are left out. Whenever someone says, oh, I'm - my friend - my sister's having a baby. Will you send your book? I think, yeah, but it's not really going to work until they're 3 or 4. And I do love those kinds of board books where you hold a child. There's only a few things per page. They have a visual fascination. And for a real sort of newborn or toddler, that kind of book - I felt that my book didn't work for them. So that made me think, oh, I'd love to do the same idea but for really little kids with a different energy.
MARTIN: And it's smaller, too, 'cause you're right.
NOVAK: Yeah.
MARTIN: I mean, when kids are little-little, they are going to be sitting on your lap to read. And...
NOVAK: Sitting on your lap...
MARTIN: Yeah.
NOVAK: ...Holding close. It's a cozier book. It's a sweeter book. It's silly, but it's not as outrageous. The words are meant to look like fascinating art objects, you know? What - boof (ph), you know?
MARTIN: Boof.
NOVAK: These big words - right...
MARTIN: (Laughter).
NOVAK: ...That a kid can think, oh, that's interesting. When we get to this image, my parent always says this thing. It's sort of a fun way to connect sort of language as symbols, as - you know, as art.
MARTIN: Bonk.
NOVAK: Yes. I just wanted them to say bonk. But I think that is how it works, and I do think it's interesting.
MARTIN: What are some of your favorite words in this book?
NOVAK: I love the page you were just on - hug and squeeze. And then the page that is a tickle, tickle, tickle, tickle, tickle. That is the...
MARTIN: Now you're...
NOVAK: ...One that the...
MARTIN: ...Giving spoilers away.
NOVAK: ...Kids like the most.
MARTIN: Spoilers. You're doing spoilers here.
NOVAK: I think the parent can have a spoiler. I think the parent can have a spoiler.
MARTIN: Do you have, like, a set group of littles that you workshop your book with?
NOVAK: Sometimes at school, thanks to the first book, they'll let me come in and read to the kindergarten or the first grade. They're happy to have me as a guest reader. And then I'm like, why don't I show you this new one? You know? So I get to workshop it to kindergartens sometimes if I sneak in.
MARTIN: Oh. That's awesome. So before we let you go, there's a sweetness to this book. Do you feel like there's some sweetness missing from childhood, especially with all the devices? You know, it's almost like there's no space for them to kind of create their own world anymore. I just wondered if you feel that way.
NOVAK: I really idealize the moments of childhood when you are experiencing things with no cynicism, and you are just learning what the world is. You are learning that a word on a page makes a certain sound, that sometimes that sound is serious, sometimes that word is silly. So I think the idea that there is an age when everyone experiences the world for the first time is so divine. And so, to me, even though this is with a lot of funny words, it's a way to share that moment with them. You know, my niece and nephew are 5 and 2. So just sort of seeing them form the world as you read it to them - it's beautiful and great. So I don't know what awaits them, but I do know what moments we can create and share with them.
MARTIN: That's B.J. Novak. His latest book is "The Little Book With No Pictures." It's a board book, and it is out now. B.J. Novak, thank you so much.
NOVAK: Thank you so much.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TWINKLE TWINKLE LITTLE STAR (FEAT. SARA BAREILLES)")
SARA BAREILLES: (Singing) Twinkle, twinkle, little star, how... Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
