STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Let's ask Michael McFaul about this. He was the U.S. ambassador to Russia during the Obama administration and is now a professor of political science and a Hoover senior fellow at Stanford University, where it is ridiculously early, and yet he's gotten up to talk with us. Ambassador, welcome.
MICHAEL MCFAUL: Thanks for having me.
INSKEEP: And thanks for the time. The president has been so favorable to Russia that I have to ask if you think that his most recent actions amount to a shift at all.
MCFAUL: Well, you're right to remind everybody that he's liked Putin for a long time. I mean, go back to the beginning of his first administration. He constantly praised Putin. He sided with him. When questioned in a very famous summit with Putin, his first one in 2018, in Helsinki, he sided with Putin and he didn't side with our own intelligence community about whether there was interference in our elections.
So that piece has been consistent. What I think has changed in a profound way in the last week - in a profound, tragic way for me - is he always had a few constraints. He always was talking to Zelenskyy. He claimed from Day 1 of this second term that he wanted to end the war in Ukraine. And I applaud him for that, by the way. Everybody should want to see the end of this barbaric war that Putin started. But this week felt different in both tone and actions.
So rhetorically, he's always sided with Putin. Now he really doubled down. As Emily just went through that list, every single one of those things are concessions to Putin. That's not a way to mediate. He's not mediating. He's just giving Putin what he wants. And then when it comes to Zelenskyy, he's blaming Zelenskyy for Putin killing his own people. And I thought that clip you just played of the Ukrainian woman, it's a former press secretary of President Zelenskyy, who's now defected, gone - you know, just doesn't support Zelenskyy anymore, I should be clear...
INSKEEP: Yeah.
MCFAUL: ...Not defected Ukraine.
INSKEEP: Right.
MCFAUL: I think you just see the true colors of President Trump right now.
INSKEEP: Well, Zelenskyy spoke with this bipartisan group of American lawmakers yesterday, and he posted a video online afterward of his address. He said the Pentagon is making it harder for Ukraine to get intelligence and also delaying the U.S. approval of the transfer of weapons. Let's listen to some of that.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: All of this suggests that some political decision has been made to slow down support for us. And this is in sharp contrast to what we are achieving on the battlefield.
INSKEEP: I want to explore that a little bit, too, because he says a political decision, suggesting it's not just Trump's impulses here or there, but that there's a deliberate change in policy by the United States. It sounds like you would agree with that.
MCFAUL: I do. And I tragically agree with that because we in this fight between democratic Ukraine and autocratic Russia, in this fight between an imperial leader in Russia who's invading and trying to reconquer a former colony, we're now on the side of the autocrats. This is unprecedented in American history. I can't think of a time when in a similar kind of situation, in 100 years, where we have decided, oh, we're going to support the autocrats, the imperialists against a country fighting for its independence with a democratically elected leader.
Now, you know, there's some ambiguity as to who made the decision about turning off Starlink. And there's some ambiguity about why there's the delays in the missiles, the interceptors that President Zelenskyy is talking about. But if we were trying to help Ukraine, we would be clearing up that ambiguity. We would be saying, this is what happened, and now we're turning it on. And Trump is doing exactly the opposite.
INSKEEP: Well, let's talk about some of those people.
MCFAUL: And I just find that the moral...
INSKEEP: Let's talk about some of those people in the room with Zelenskyy...
MCFAUL: Yeah.
INSKEEP: ...Some of those lawmakers from both parties, some of whom face the voters...
MCFAUL: Yeah.
INSKEEP: ...In a couple of weeks. What, if anything, can they do about the president's course?
MCFAUL: Well, in the short run, not much. But in the short run, I guarantee you, most of them are not going to be lining up with the president, because the public opinion polling here in America about Putin is very clear. We don't have many polls, Steve, where 80% of Americans - 83% of Americans think that Putin's a bad guy. So when Trump is embracing him, he is out of step with American society.
INSKEEP: You said in the short term. What about the longer term? Is there something Congress can do over time?
MCFAUL: Yes. I hope when there's a new Congress - and, you know, tragically, that's a long time for Ukrainians. But introduce new legislation to prevent Americans from doing business with Russia. Introduce new legislation to provide a new military assistance package to Ukraine. We haven't had that for two years. And even if President Trump vetoes it, it'll at least show what side the U.S. Congress is on.
INSKEEP: And I guess we should mention Congress did pass a law, but it allowed the president to waive it, and that's what he's done.
MCFAUL: Yes.
INSKEEP: I suppose Congress would have to pass a law with more restrictions.
MCFAUL: That would be a good idea.
INSKEEP: Ambassador McFaul, it's always a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much.
MCFAUL: Yeah. Thanks for having me.
INSKEEP: Michael McFaul is a former U.S. ambassador to Russia. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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