JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
With less than two weeks to go until Election Day, Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan delivered a sharp assessment of the court's approach to voting and gerrymandering. In remarks at Catholic University's law school yesterday, the liberal justice also pointed out the court has rejected some attempts by President Trump to push the envelope. NPR's Carrie Johnson was at that event, and now she's here in our studio to tell us more. Hey.
CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: Hi there.
SUMMERS: So, Carrie, just start by telling me, what stood out to you about what Justice Kagan had to say?
JOHNSON: Well, remember, Elena Kagan is the former dean of the Harvard Law School, so a real powerhouse. And in her time on the court in the last few years, she's written some really powerful dissents, especially when it comes to voting and election issues. She got asked about that last night, and she said these kinds of cases are just about the most important thing the court does, but she said the court's conservative majority seem to have a lack of concern or understanding of the consequences of its decisions. And then she said, quote, "the court has kind of blinded itself to the very deleterious effect of rulings (ph) on how the political system works and has created a democracy that does not work as well as it should."
SUMMERS: Interesting. And did Kagan have any specifics about how she believes the court is undermining democracy?
JOHNSON: She did. Over the past few years, she said the court's conservative majority has basically said courts are out of the business of policing gerrymandering, which she says means both parties are kind of in a race to the bottom on how they draw legislative maps. She also warned Black political representation in Southern states could be about to plunge because the court has basically eviscerated the landmark Voting Rights Act. And it's allowed more money to flood campaigns by easing restrictions on the campaign finance system. She said, people look around and see all this money chasing all these political candidates. It's a nightmare, she said, and they're right.
SUMMERS: It sounds like she had some pretty pointed things to say about the court and how it approaches politics. But I'd love to know more about what she said about how the justices have approached President Trump.
JOHNSON: Yeah, this was a nuanced point by the justice. She said this court is deeply conservative and that it's pursued some long-standing goals for the conservative movement, like giving more power to the executive branch. But she also said this court gets a bum rap for siding too often with President Trump. She says this court has rejected the president's tariffs, his effort to redefine who counts as an American citizen, his attempt to bring National Guard troops to some U.S. cities. She says the court has definitely pushed back on the president on things Donald Trump cares a lot about. And she says that's why Trump has said some not very nice things about the court and her colleagues lately.
SUMMERS: Now, Justice Kagan has been on the Supreme Court now - I believe it's for 16 years. Did you get a sense from what you heard about how she views that experience?
JOHNSON: She was pretty reflective last night. Remember, she was appointed by President Barack Obama back in 2010. She also said she's someone who believes in precedent and that the law moves best when it moves slowly. But this current court has been in a hurry in a lot of ways.
SUMMERS: Yeah.
JOHNSON: She seemed kind of nostalgic for the time after Justice Antonin Scalia died and the court had to operate with only eight justices. She said the court was in a better place then, and so was the country because the justices couldn't do too much. They had to compromise. They had to listen to each other. She said the court had a kind of legitimacy back then that helped to create a stable country.
SUMMERS: And Carrie, last thing - I mean, this current court has been taking on a lot of cases regarding religious freedom. Did she address that?
JOHNSON: She says religious liberty is an incredibly important value in the country since many people, including her own ancestors, came to the U.S. so they could practice religion without fear or violence. But she also says she's been mindful that we're a single national community. She mentioned a case several years back where a town only said Christian prayers before town meetings, and she said that sends a message about who's included and who's excluded in that community. She also talked a little about her own Jewish faith, what she called an important part of who she is and where she came from.
SUMMERS: NPR's Carrie Johnson, thanks as always.
JOHNSON: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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