SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
President Trump and Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have a long history of working together. They've also had sharp disagreements. While the two leaders closely coordinated the launch of the war on Iran three months ago, now the relationship is strained over whether to keep up military pressure or look for a diplomatic solution. To break this down, we are joined by two NPR correspondents, Franco Ordoñez in Washington and Greg Myre in Tel Aviv. Greg, I'm going to start with you. What caused this current latest friction between the two leaders?
GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Yeah, Scott. Israel launched this major offensive in southern Lebanon against Hezbollah, and it was in response to incoming fire from that group. Prime Minister Netanyahu went up to Israel's northern border last Friday. He told the Israeli troops to keep on going. He went even further on Monday. He put out a statement saying Israel would carry out airstrikes on Hezbollah strongholds in the southern suburbs of the capital Beirut, where many of the group's leaders are based.
Lebanese citizens got in their cars, started fleeing, creating massive traffic jams. It looked like we were headed for a major escalation in Lebanon and at a time when there's supposed to be a ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah as part of the broader ceasefire with Iran. Iran then said it would stop the indirect negotiations with the U.S. because of this Israeli operation, and that really grabbed Trump's attention, so he called Netanyahu yesterday.
DETROW: OK, and Franco, pick up the story there. What do we know about that phone call?
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Yeah. Publicly, Trump said it was a very productive call and that he told Netanyahu to not hit Beirut. But friction has been brewing for a while over Israeli military actions in Lebanon. I was speaking with Aaron David Miller, who has advised Democratic and Republican presidents on the Middle East, and he says Trump is defending Netanyahu publicly but that the private messaging is very different.
AARON DAVID MILLER: The subtext here is, look what you got me into. You persuaded me that at a minimum, the conditions for regime change would be laid as a consequence of what I've done. Trump has to be beside himself with frustration and hot anger.
ORDOÑEZ: And he pointed to other past statements that Trump has made about Netanyahu, such as declaring that the prime minister will, quote, "do whatever I want him to do." Miller really called it an astounding statement for a president to make and demonstrating Trump's leverage over the prime minister.
DETROW: Greg, back to you in Tel Aviv. How is Israel responding to Trump's message and this ongoing rift?
MYRE: Yeah. Israel's media and many politicians have just absolutely savaged Netanyahu. They said he was a puppet, too weak to stand up to Trump. They said Trump has now forced Israel to accept three ceasefires recently that Israel opposed - Gaza, Iran and now Lebanon. Ben Caspit, who's a prominent columnist with the Maariv newspaper and a frequent critic of Netanyahu, wrote, quote, "The truth needs to be said. Israeli policy is dictated by Trump's social media posts."
So, Scott, as you know in the U.S., you often hear the criticism of Israel and Netanyahu that he's trying to drag the U.S. into Middle East conflicts, that he has too much influence over U.S. policy in the region. You know, in Israel, you hear the exact opposite...
DETROW: Oh, interesting.
MYRE: ...That Israel and Netanyahu aren't strong enough to stand up to Trump or other U.S. presidents and that the U.S. prevents Israel from taking actions it wants to. So Netanyahu seems to have backed away from attacking Beirut for now, but Israel did carry out airstrikes in southern Lebanon today.
DETROW: And then, Franco, in the meantime, where do we stand on the talks with Iran? Have they become more complicated now because of this additional scrutiny and focus on what's happening in Lebanon?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, clearly more complicated. I mean, we've been reporting for the last week that the two sides appear relatively close to agreeing on some framework for a deal, but the renewed fighting in Lebanon has kind of thrown a wrench into those talks. Now, Iran has made very clear that it sees the fighting in Lebanon as a direct link to the negotiations. And the fact that fighting started again just kind of highlights how hard it has been for Trump, or really any U.S. president recently, working with Israel when they have different security objectives. You know, Trump wants a deal, and Israel is looking at their security and really wants to weaken Hezbollah.
DETROW: And these friction points have been there all along, but, Greg, at the same time, Trump and Netanyahu were so closely aligned - they were such close partners - when they started this war with Iran. At this stage, do they now have different goals?
MYRE: Yeah, I think it's fair to say that. They began the war with these same sweeping objectives. They both wanted Iran's Islamic government toppled, its nuclear program completely dismantled. But now Trump is clearly focused on a deal, one that would involve a lot of compromises. You know, it would leave the regime in place. He still opposes Iran's nuclear program but appears willing to negotiate that after the war ends.
Netanyahu wants to keep up the military pressure. He wants to weaken the Iranian government in every way possible. A big concern for him is Iran's missile program, since Iran has fired on Israel throughout the war. And as we've seen, Netanyahu has much the same approach toward Hezbollah in Lebanon and against Hamas in Gaza. And Iran has learned that it can use this, the Lebanon war in particular, as a wedge to divide Trump and Netanyahu.
DETROW: Franco, at the same time, whatever the differences may be, don't Trump and Netanyahu still have to work together on some level?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. I mean, they do. I mean, if the goal is to reach some kind of durable agreement that meets, you know, Trump's original objectives, including ending Iran's support of aligned groups, I mean, they need each other. Israel needs the U.S. to negotiate this agreement. It can't do it on its own. Trump needs Israel to really establish security in the region. Trump also knows Netanyahu. As, you know, Aaron David Miller explained to me, Netanyahu's kind of the devil that he knows. He knows how to - Trump knows how to push Netanyahu's buttons.
And while they did not get into - or while they did get into this war together, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be on the same page when they get out. Aaron David Miller also told me that Trump has made very clear that he's going to press Netanyahu if it means they're in reach of a deal. I mean, Bibi did play a significant role in starting this war, but he just may not play as significant of a role in how it ends.
DETROW: That is NPR's Franco Ordoñez in Washington and Greg Myre in Tel Aviv. Thanks to you both.
ORDOÑEZ: Thank you.
MYRE: Sure thing, Scott.
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